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Core Magic Discussion

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Core Magic Discussion

Post by Riley Oran on Fri May 23, 2014 5:00 pm

Alright, so before we can fully define Void Runners, we need to define Core Energy. This topic aims to specifically achieve that purpose.

What do we know about Core Energy/Magic thus far?


  • Core Magic affects beings with Freedom
  • Core Energy/Magic cannot be used by Gods
  • Core Magic is very effective against Gods
  • Core Energy is created from Virtue/Sin Energy
  • Core Energy can be manufactured within Void Runners

Now, taking this, we need to determine exactly what Core Energy is. I have the idea that it is the natural, refined and whole form of Sin Energy and Virtue Energy should be. That's the most basic premise I have, but I'm hoping it can be expanded upon?

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Pinky_Rose on Sat May 24, 2014 10:52 pm

I always thought that Core energy was an equalization of both sin and virtue energy. Voidrunners are able to channel surrounding sin and virtue energy through their spark, converting it into Core energy for them to use....at least that's what I got out of it. I dunno. My brain hurts.

I was also under the impression that it was this Core energy that allows Voidrunners to control whatever abilities they have--each spark is different, though they might be similar in certain aspects because Voidrunners have a certain TYPE of spark, which means that every Voidrunner's powers are going to be different--kind of like ((Goddamnit the X-men thing!)) Mutants' DNA. You're going to have different DNA in the same token that you'll have variations in a spark.

I dunno. It doesn't seem like it needs any further explanation other than that. It seems...surprisingly basic all things considered.

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Emile Rivers on Sun May 25, 2014 3:37 am

My thematic example preferred to have Core energy stem from an inward source, meaning that if we did draw energy from the outside, we would filter it through ourselves, in order to use it.

Not saying it's the definitive way to do it, obviously, I'm just fond of that idea, since it particularly plays against Sin Eaters.

Anyway, we can justify the different abilities the way Rose suggested. While all sparks share the same origin, they are a different expression, which, in turn, causes different affinities for abilities. That, in essence, simplifies that need.

However, we might need to justify as to why it affects Gods the way it does, whereas Sin and Virtue do not.
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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Pinky_Rose on Mon May 26, 2014 10:02 pm

Maybe God's energy works in the same way that the Voidrunner's does--they take energy from around them, convert it through their spark, and just use it the way the runners do...just WAY more amplified.

But think about it like this: There's going to be only a certain amount of space with energy in it. Once it's gone, it's gone--not destroyed of course (because it's scientifically proven that one cannot destroy matter, god or no,) but is basically unusable to living things--including gods, until its recycled again through whatever means that energy does that. If God of War has taught me anything, it's that Gods can be weak, too, when given the proper circumstances. ((Also Kratos is a badass.))
Like, in my head, both gods and runners can only convert so much energy before they start seriously damaging things around them, to INCLUDE themselves, wearing out their spark's natural energy by converting so much outside energy into the stuff they need.

If a single voidrunner is fighting a single god, yeah, the god's pull of energy is naturally going to be stronger. But...as the lore states, it takes SEVERAL runners to kill a god, or even make them subdued. If you have enough Voidrunners, THEIR pull on the energy conversion might be strong enough to out-suck a god's consumption and conversion rate just from their sheer numbers, let alone the strength of their combined sparks.

I dunno. I'm throwing these things out there because they make sense in my head. xD

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A good character is created with a good foundation, good development...and most importantly, great interaction. Without one of those things, you'll never go anywhere."
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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Riley Oran on Mon May 26, 2014 10:53 pm

It's an interesting angle to consider at the very least.

I've really messed up people, because on my end I've failed to elaborate on certain things. Once my free time resumes this coming weekend (and likely during the Podcast that I have planned) I will be pouring through lore topics and attempting to expand on certain key areas.

So, sparks. Gods, Energy beings, Angels, Demons, and indeed all non-corporeal entities don't have sparks. Rather, they are sparks that never made it into mortal bodies. Left in the void, they gained their own presence outside of the cycle of Life, Death, and Fate. Some of these sparks were simply more powerful than others, but in the end they all manifested due to residual energy from both the Zero Moment and the Infinite Lives event into their current forms. There are exceptions to this rule or creation, as some gods are created later and some under different circumstances.

To classify: a mortal being is anything that exists inside of a body. Immortal beings do not. Usually, mortals have sparks (though wile rare it is entirely possibly that they do not) that are contained int their bodies that essentially give life to these squishy little shells, and in truth the power of a spark would be absolutely immense. Mortal shells however can contain that power.

Which I had though was an interesting punishment and weakness for Gods in it's own right. Cast into a mortal form, they'd lose a vast majority of their power if not all. That, however, doesn't contradict what you've said. Rather, what you've said expands on this concept.

The idea that Gods also draw energy from their environment, often with disastrous results, has been implied elsewhere on another site that I used Cain on for a brief story arc. In that particular situation, Cain removed his cloak. The significant factor of this is that the Cloak is a limiter for Cain's power which is theoretically so immense that if left unchecked could rend existence simply by his presence. As an example: wearing the cloak, Cain is easily the strongest of the Gods, with only Ryuu actually able to stand against him. Without the Cloak, Cain's power is no longer suppressed and ascends to unimaginable heights. In this situation, with his cloak merely removed the dimension around him started to collapse from what initially could have been his power output.

As of reading this, I like to think it was the power draw, and it gives a very good reason for that cloak too. Gods while not necessarily having access to more energy could easily be seen as more efficient converters of it, possibly into an even more pure form of related energy. So basically, with less energy they could produce more power but at the same time to maintain their existence require a massive amount of power on their own merit. Overuse of their powers could cause severe dimensional instability, which gives the Basic Order Doctrine and even greater reason to exist, and makes the history of the Dalnigaril and the Black even more tragically avoidable.

Which means that, even as Gods are cranking out energy for their own use, there is no reason it can't be pulled for use by other beings like Void Runners which would seem to be a purposely designed "emergency" function for them in the specific instance they ever actually had to mobilize and become Godslayers. It also explains why they have a pocket dimension as opposed to operating with every Void Runner in a normal plane. The Pocket dimension is supported by the collective power of the Void Runners and is designed to allow more energy in from the Void with minimal draw from the surroundings, while this same trait likely would not exist in a normal dimension. Thus, a pocket world is not only convenient but needed.

It also would explain why Gods exist primarily in the Void. Even though it's more ancient, there is simply more energy in the Void than there would be anywhere else.

Thoughts?

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Artless_Artist on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:28 am

Aye. I would agree that there would be a massive amount of energy there. 

So, I would like to continue this...but I am unsure where to start. So, while I like the "Keeper Council" thing for Void Runners as well as the Pocket Dimension thing (which could possibly act like Eden does, for Void Runners), I notice that we will have to continue that once this is done.

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Cain on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:44 am

I need to refresh myself on this discussion as well before I have an accurate idea of how to handle it.

But from what I recall, the Void Runners are capable of drawing power from around them and converting it into strength. That does provide them with a semi-reasonable limit based on location, and since they are still technically mortal means they can't enter the Void itself without consequence (note that they may not actually be required too).

This core energy is made from either positive (Virtue) or negative (Sin) energy. However, within the Void Runner's spark it is entirely possible that the energy's positive and negative aspects are stripped away and the energy itself is the neutral counterpart to the two.

Over time, it could be that the type of energy usually absorbed has an effect on the Void Runner's alignment and state of mind. Without a balanced intake of both eventually the Runner goes made, becoming either a Knight-Templar-Esque character (Virute) or an Entity not entirely unlike the Sin Eaters. Even more extreme, it could eventually kill them. This could be why Void Runners are doomed from the start as was brought up: they either go violently insane and their once-comrades have to hunt them down, or they die because of an equivalent of overdose.

So, Core Energy would essentially be a completely neutral energy. Gods would be enable to use both Virtue and Sin Energy at will, but Void Runners symbolically used the Core Energy in a similar manner to Jinsei's negation abilities (Jinsei is an individual who embodies non-existence). It would be the more tangible version of that, limited by existence but still capable of negation. This way the Void Runner converts that energy not only into their own energy, but something the Gods are unable to use despite some of them having abilities nearly absolute in scope.

Oh, but the implications! I love the implications.
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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Artless_Artist on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:59 am

Yes, Void Runners could indeed be a hopeless existence, being as they embody neutrality like their Core, yet still mortal. I would think all of them would have a switch where they no longer care anymore and literally detonate the energy inside of them, resulting in a blast that would pretty much take out whatever said Void Runner goes up against. 

Over time, it could be that the type of energy usually absorbed has an effect on the Void Runner's alignment and state of mind. Without a balanced intake of both eventually the Runner goes made, becoming either a Knight-Templar-Esque character (Virute) or an Entity not entirely unlike the Sin Eaters. Even more extreme, it could eventually kill them. This could be why Void Runners are doomed from the start as was brought up: they either go violently insane and their once-comrades have to hunt them down, or they die because of an equivalent of overdose.

So, Core Energy would essentially be a completely neutral energy. Gods would be enable to use both Virtue and Sin Energy at will, but Void Runners symbolically used the Core Energy in a similar manner to Jinsei's negation abilities (Jinsei is an individual who embodies non-existence). It would be the more tangible version of that, limited by existence but still capable of negation. This way the Void Runner converts that energy not only into their own energy, but something the Gods are unable to use despite some of them having abilities nearly absolute in scope. 
I like this. But, however; I do see this as a inward force rather than an outward force, but i suppose you could make use of the energies around you- much like regular Mana. (for some reason i see this as more of a elevated form of Ki, rather than Mana, but i digress.) But yes, this type of power should have a massive effect on what their mental status, so 'rouge's shouldn't be all that uncommon, ESPECIALLY OLD ONES. (although i see them as maddened Gilgameshs, rather than any form of Rouges. they'd have a semblance of sanity but also the closest idea on what the core wants, being as they managed to keep their powers until then)

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Cain on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:36 am

Which is interesting in and of itself, because that means their madness wasn't unaccounted for. It's literally as though the Core is gaming these individuals to fulfill certain needs and purposes but they're so vast that the Void Runners (and most likely even the Gods) don't see them for what they are. Keep in mind the Core also regards individual mortals in the same manner gods do.

Non-important, because usually they just reincarnate. The Void Runner instance dies, but then it is reborn to some degree later. Given the process of how things are Reincarnated Void Runner status would probably not carry over to just one spark, but either none of them or multiple incarnations of the same one.
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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Artless_Artist on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:19 pm

I wouldn't think they would even get a second chance, or another cycle. I would think that- If they did manage to succeed in whatever the Core wanted them to do, they would either be kept in "storage" until they were needed again, or stripped of their powers and sent home, (or to death, either way).

If they didn't...well shows over for everyone. I see them as literally something only to be used when there is a major crisis that not even the gods can handle alone, which means if they fail, its game over.

Although, I would think this ignited spark would be used for some other worthy person.

I dunno, random thoughts at night.

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Cain on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:23 am

Hmm, interesting thing to consider. So, to be clear, you mean to say that you think that the core reserves the sparks of the fallen Void Runners for later?

It's entirely feasible, and possibly interesting if they experience a sort of forced reincarnation. I do recall that Void Runners are a system of balance between the Gods and the Mortals, actually meant to check the Gods if they get out of control using Core Energy. Enough Void Runners in an area can actually prevent a God from outputting energy.

I would like to keep the idea of them being a filter though. If the Core was indeed working towards it's own ends as I believe it would (either preventing major crisis or spurring some sort of omniversal evolution) it could reserve the corrupted sparks too to provide villains and draw attention to certain things. It don't believe it would do this very often, but if it ever did there's no doubt the Void Runners themselves would have to stop and question what was going on.

The other main thing if I recall was that Void Runners die in spectacular explosions when their due date comes. I'm not exactly a fan of the explosions but some kind of Lightshow or otherwise alarming and beautiful event could add a layer of tragedy further still. Beauty in death, as it were.

Don't be so unconfident, man. It's a random thought at night but it was still a thought, and it was still pretty good.
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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Artless_Artist on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:20 pm

Hmm, interesting thing to consider. So, to be clear, you mean to say that you think that the core reserves the sparks of the fallen Void Runners for later?

Yes, although it's all on the whims of the Core. If it doesn't want it or need it; it can throw it away. an untold number of life...it can spare a few.

I would like to keep the idea of them being a filter though. If the Core was indeed working towards it's own ends as I believe it would (either preventing major crisis or spurring some sort of omniversal evolution) it could reserve the corrupted sparks too to provide villains and draw attention to certain things. It don't believe it would do this very often, but if it ever did there's no doubt the Void Runners themselves would have to stop and question what was going on.


The other main thing if I recall was that Void Runners die in spectacular explosions when their due date comes. I'm not exactly a fan of the explosions but some kind of Lightshow or otherwise alarming and beautiful event could add a layer of tragedy further still. Beauty in death, as it were.

That was actually more of a joke- "Get tired and detonate themselves" thing. HOWEVER, I did give an idea that their Ascension to a Void Runner Could Result in an explosion, it really depends on the personality, situation and their needs. 

As an off-note, we should make it where it's a Earn Your Happy Ending for these characters, lest they be rendered unplayable due to darkness induced apathy for those playing it. For some reason I felt that we were making forgone characters, but I suppose most myths played out like that.

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Riley Oran on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:01 am

Well for me, the thing about Void Runners is that they have to wrestle with that apathy. It is still similar to how a normal being, given the appropriate amount of intelligence, may understand that it will die.

Void Runners are no different, but they either have shorter or longer and their causes of death are far more predictable. Some live for a few decades past their recruitment, some for centuries. It's pretty hit or miss and depends on how intelligently the Void Runner exposes themselves and uses their abilities.

Either way, they struggle with mortality like any other reasonably intelligent character would.

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Artless_Artist on Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:02 pm

Aye, and on some points of this I agree...but many don't really like to be reminded that life is finite, as they are reminded with every tick of the clock.

But I suppose in the scheme of things Void Runners do run where a lot of things might turn into a bad end, more-so than any other character that might come from this place. After all, getting into things that sometimes not even gods can get into will do that to a person, especially a mortal one.

And yes, they are like everyone else to a point...they will have their lights and darkness's.

Alright, so you have an idea for outward sources for energy (that filter idea) while I have an idea for an internal source...although I find that Filtering could work just as well as mine; given we spread out what exactly filters and how-

I believe adding two sectors, One an Internal "Generator" and one an External "Filter" might be over-complicating it a bit; although I can see these two being able to partner up and act as one being I suppose? Filters could send their power through a generator and power up the generators latent abilities, making them stronger?

What do you think?

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Re: Core Magic Discussion

Post by Riley Oran on Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:57 pm

I think one of the defining traits of the Void Runners is that they had a finite duration. This comes from the original points raised by Pinky Rose and Sloth in which being a Void Runner was a death sentence, essentially, and I for one rather like the idea. I do understand the dislike for potentially being on a "timer" as it were, but it is an integral part of the concept as far as the two members who have contributed the most to it are concerned.

Now, as for the external filter and internal generator: they'd work excellently together, and there is nothing that actively prevents the two from coexisting. It provides the Void Runner with some power when they are without anything ambient, and depending on how it's played can be anything from a back-up to a last resort.

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